Greetings! This week I’m responding to five questions I’ve received from readers in the last few months. I have no claim on perfect wisdom, and I’m always open to correction and new discoveries, but I pray that what I do have to offer here is helpful and edifying.
Question 1: What’s the difference between chasing and seeking?
I recently started reading your book, Litanies of the Heart, and I’m wondering what the difference is between seeking a part as the Good Shepherd would do, verses chasing a part? In Foundation Week 5, Dr. Peter says that the Self doesn’t go and chase parts, but that parts will often chase parts, try to make them enter into relationship, etc. and that you know there’s a blend when that is taking place. Could you comment on the difference between seeking and chasing?
Answer: In my view, the inmost self is sometimes like the Good Shepherd seeking lost sheep, i.e. exiled parts. There’s a big difference between seeking a lost (and possibly scared) sheep versus hunting one down and forcing them to go with you. Parts that chase other parts have an agenda, usually informed by a burden.
The only “agenda” of the inmost self is love which might manifest as an effort to bring harmony, bring healing, extend compassion, or offer hope — and this is more of a telos than an agenda. This telos reflects the work of Christ Himself and in Chapter 3 of Litanies of the Heart (beginning on pages 65) I describe the qualities of Christ from the Gospel that reflect the modus operandi of the inmost self.
There’s also a question of discernment. The father in the parable of the Prodigal Son didn’t go out and find his son when he was living his dissolute life. The son had to experience repentance and choose to go home.
A lost sheep, however, even if they wanted to, might not be able to find the flock. So, the circumstances matter! And God knows what we need at any given time on our journey.
The inmost self, in relationship with God, can also exercise discernment about parts, especially exiled or “lost” parts. God may decide to extend an unexpected grace. The inmost self might decide to offer compassion, but the exiled part always has the freedom to respond or not. God is never coercive or pushy and the inmost self, in communion with God, is never coercive either.
Question 2: How do we harmonize parts work with Ignatian spirituality?
In the Spiritual Exercises, Saint Ignatius provides 2 sets of Rules for the Discernment of Spirits. He says that the Week I Rules are “Rules for understanding to some extent the different movements produced in the soul and for recognizing those that are good to admit them, and those that are bad, to reject them.”
When speaking of the “evil spirit”, Saint Ignatius says that it’s characteristic of this spirit “to harass with anxiety, to afflict with sadness”, etc. He talks about spiritual desolation, and says that spiritual desolation can be described as “darkness of soul, turmoil of spirit, inclination to what is low and earthly, restlessness rising from many disturbances and temptations which lead to want of faith, want of hope, want of love.
The soul is wholly slothfully, tepid, sad, and separated, as it were, from its Creator and Lord.” Saint Ignatius counsels us that we are to firmly reject spiritual desolation, which used to make a lot of sense to me.
But, as I embark on this journey of parts work, I’m starting to be more curious about this. A brief glance at anyone’s PFP [The PartsFinder Pro, see more on it below], including my own, will reveal that many of these characteristics of the evil spirit (which includes the world, flesh, and the devil), as well as many of the movements that take place when one is experiencing spiritual desolation, are very likely coming from parts.
Under the normal Ignatian assumption, we would firmly reject those movements. But, from an IFS framework, we’d be firmly rejecting or steamrolling parts who are wounded, have a distorted God image, etc
I’m wondering if you could comment on all of this. Ignatian spirituality has been around for centuries and has been incredibly fruitful, and the Spiritual Exercises (including the Rules) are approved by the Church. How do we harmonize parts work with Ignatian spirituality?
Answer: When St. Ignatius calls us to reject desolation, I don’t see this as a call to reject a part of the self-system. I see this as a call to reject the burden that the part is carrying which causes desolation.
We are to firmly reject the lies of the enemy. In psychological terms, these lies are the false beliefs and negative cognitions we carry in our hearts. These lies often come from negative but perhaps understandable conclusions we make based on our past trauma – but they are not truths, and we do need to reject them. “I’m unlovable,” “I’m unworthy of love,” and “God doesn’t love me” are all lies. The enemy would use these lies to harass us, increase our anxiety, and even lead us into despair.
The antidote is always truth in love, but that truth sometimes must be measured, timed, and digestible given the person’s situation and circumstances. That truth can be adapted to working with parts. The goal is rejecting lies and affirming truth: You are loved. You are worthy of love. God loves you more than you can imagine.
An integrated Parts Work/Ignatian approach would still discern desolation but would approach the rejection with some nuance. Is the part ready to release the burden that causes desolation? If not, what is holding them back?
The evil spirit wants the part to believe they can’t let the burden go or else something worse might happen. What is the real fear then? And is that fear because of a past trauma? And what would happen if we addressed the trauma, gave the part what they needed, helped them see they can now cope in a healthy and safe way?
If all of that is addressed, would the part release the burden that causes desolation? I believe the answer is yes. The part in question needs to trust the inmost self (and in many cases God as well) and believe they will be safe if they let go of the burden and reject the lies.
I’m convinced then that a Parts Work (IFS) approach could in fact enhance the Ignatian process. This integration of approaches may prevent the repression of parts carrying burdens of shame, fear, and pain.
Having said that, I plan on spending some serious time researching and reflecting on Ignatius spirituality and parts. It has been on my list of things to do for some time now. My own background with Ignatian spirituality began with the work of Fr. Tim Gallagher but I have also helped with designing an Ignatian retreat for the Jesuit Conference of Canada and the U.S. I just need to deep dive into the Exercises again… stay tuned…
Question 3: Is trauma an event itself, or one’s emotional response to the event?
In an email you sent out on Thomistic Psychology and Parts, commenting on Dr. Christin McIntyre’s presentation, you mentioned your disagreement with Dr. McIntyre regarding Jesus experiencing or not experiencing trauma.
I am wondering if you would be willing to give a definition for how you define trauma? Do you think trauma is the event itself, or one’s emotional response to the event?
When I was reading through your email, I was reminded of a talk that I heard by Kyle Clement, who works very closely with Father Ripperger (who also, interestingly, has influenced Dr. McIntyre’s thought). Mr. Clement said that violence is objective, and Jesus certainly experienced incredible violence in His Passion and Death.
But, he said, trauma is subjective. He said trauma is the lasting psychological or physiological effect of the perceived violence and identifying as a victim. He argued that our Lord was not traumatized by the Passion, but rather freely and willingly laid down His life, forgave from the Cross the people who were abusing Him, etc.
He also pointed out that the first words He spoke to the Apostles after the Passion were, “Peace…” I went back to Dr. McIntyre’s talk and see that she, too, made that distinction. She said that “there is a difference between trauma and violence. The crucifixion was violent, but wasn’t traumatic. Jesus was not left traumatized because He did not fight the suffering. He fully consented to it. He fully stayed in union with His Father’s will….” (Then they had to stop the talk and she couldn’t finish her explanation.) Anyway, I’m curious about your thoughts on all of this.
Answer: This is a great question. Trauma is an exposure to a disturbing and/or threatening event that has the capacity to overwhelm or at a minimum seriously distress the system. It leads to physical, emotional, and/or psychological suffering.
Being stabbed with a knife is a physical trauma. Being sexually assaulted is a physical trauma. Being publicly ridiculed and demeaned is an emotional and verbal trauma.
How a person responds to a trauma can vary. Normal human emotional responses to trauma could include fear and sadness. Normal human physical responses to trauma could include crying out in pain.
Ideally, in the face of trauma, we would surrender to God’s will. We still suffer and we still have our feelings, but we would express them sooner than later. With a perfect surrender to God, we wouldn’t lose our ability to cope; our sense of safety wouldn’t be completely shattered; we wouldn’t have long term negative effects like post-traumatic stress disorder.
The only man who responded to trauma perfectly was Jesus Christ. He suffered and died because of His trauma.
I imagine the only woman who responded to trauma in this ideal way was His mother. The prophecy was fulfilled that a sword would pierce her heart (not literally but emotionally) as it would have been emotionally and psychologically traumatic for her to witness the brutal slaying of her son. Nevertheless, she responded to that trauma, like Jesus Christ, with normal human suffering and grief but also with perfect grace, perfect surrender to God’s will, and perfect love.
My view then is pretty firm that Jesus experienced trauma. If Jesus hadn’t experienced trauma, he would not be truly human. If you deny His humanity, then you are basically proclaiming a Docetic heresy. No human being is flogged, belittled, jeered at, and nailed to a cross naked and doesn’t experience trauma.
There is no question in my mind that Jesus experienced a violent trauma and had emotional reactions to it. Some traumas are not physically violent such as emotional or verbal abuse. Jesus experienced ALL of it in His Passion – verbal, emotional and physical trauma.
It is not a sin to experience trauma or be affected by trauma (i.e. be traumatized) – He bled, He suffered, He cried out to God in His agony. Jesus’ response to the trauma was not sinful – it included normal human emotions and at the same time was the greatest example of overcoming a traumatic experience in the history of the world.
On a more personal note, Jesus’ trauma, Jesus’ experience on the cross, has always told me that Jesus understands my trauma better than anyone because He experienced it far worse than me. His trauma has also always told me that my trauma can have meaning, as did His, and that it can be transformed, as did His. As a human being in a fallen world, He teaches us that our trauma and suffering is not the end of the story. It can in fact become our path to union with Him.
I will give Fr. Ripperger and Dr. McIntyre the benefit of the doubt and assume we have a different definition of trauma and that their view sees trauma as a sinful response to a violent act – a view I disagree with but not a heresy technically.
Question 4: How is St. Augustine’s quote on chastity related to parts work?
The Catechism of the Catholic Church (2340) quotes Saint Augustine saying, “Indeed it is through chastity that we are gathered together and led back to the unity from which we were fragmented into multiplicity.”
Having begun parts work, that quote naturally caught my attention a few weeks ago. I’m curious if you would be willing to comment on this, and how it is relevant/applicable to parts work, if at all. I know St. Augustine felt “divided” within, especially concerning his reluctance to give up sexual immorality, but I have a feeling there’s more general truth to this quote, and I am wondering if you could share your thoughts.
Answers: I cite this passage from the CCC (2340) in Litanies of the Heart (in the footnote on page 97) and you are correct that it is a quote from Saint Augustine in the Confessions [hear more about Saint Augustine and parts in episode 168 of the Interior Integration for Catholics podcast and read more about it in this Kingdom Within article.]
I had a recent conversation with Christopher West about this exact CCC reference, and his perspective is that chastity is the virtue that integrates our humanity, body and soul.
Saint Thomas Aquinas considers chastity under the virtue of temperance. I see temperance as related to self-control which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. So, gathering our parts involves balancing, tempering them, getting them out of their extreme roles.
Saint John Paul II expands on this view of temperance in Love and Responsibility by focusing on the positive aspect of chastity (not just abstaining or tempering) and highlighting the importance of holiness and reverence not just moderation.
From this perspective, as I think Mr. West would agree, perhaps chastity is more related to love than temperance. With the help of God’s grace, the content and character of our desires can be transformed, the harmony of our parts can be experienced and celebrated, and the virtue of chastity put at the service of authentic love.
In a future Kingdom Within reflection, I plan to explore the potential relationship between Parts Work (IFS) and Theology of the Body. So, stay tuned for that too!
Question 5: Can you recommend any books our sources help me understand the interior experiences of people struggling with addictions?
Hi. We met at last year’s (Resilient Catholic Community) retreat, I asked you about addictions being parts.
I’ve come to realize that I really haven’t been compassionate to the many people close to me suffering addiction. I just didn’t understand their experiences, treating it like a choice or inconvenience. I’ve come to realize in my closest relationship that it is a matter of life of death for the one suffering the addiction. This person also behaves very avoidantly.
Can you recommend any books our sources help me understand their interior experiences? I know more people with substance issues than without, oddly, and I see this as an area in which I really need to grow. Thanks for any insight you care to share. I’m listening to all the videos from your website now.
Answer: Thank you for attending the RCC retreat and for listening to our videos! And thank you for your openness to learn and understand the experience of others with serious addictions.
I see addicted parts as firefighter parts. They are using their resources (alcohol, drugs, porn, video games, you name it) to cope with overwhelming pain, shame, or fear. Their intention is good – to stop pain, and it works. Temporarily.
Later, other parts of the system, managers usually, freak out and must pick up the pieces. External world consequences and the managers’ reaction to the consequences of the addiction usually leads to more pain, shame and/or fear. This is the addictive cycle.
In my view the primary Christian response to people with addictions is to extend compassion. This does not mean we should enable the addiction or avoid confrontation. But it does mean that we reverence the human person who is trapped in this vicious cycle.
I believe Robert Miller’s work on addictions is very helpful. He developed the Feeling-State protocol for working with addictions and I provide a link in the resources section below.
There is a book Internal Family Systems Therapy for Addictions: Trauma-Informed, Compassionate Treatment for Substance Use Disorders that you might want to check out. I haven’t read it so I can’t personally recommend it, but it is available at the IFS Institute site and on Amazon. It was written by Cece Sykes, Martha Sweezy, and Richard C. Schwartz so I imagine it’s very solid. From what I can see this book agrees with what I said above about addiction stemming from polarized parts struggling to manage underlying emotional pain.
Conclusion
I’m always happy to receive comments and questions so feel free to send any my way through office@soulsandhearts.com and your question might appear in an upcoming Kingdom Within article. I don’t consider myself above correction, so I’m also open to a critique or even something that might improve or expand on my answer. My own view is that we’re all on this new journey to understand our faith better in relation to parts psychology – what an exciting new path! There’s so much to explore and discover!
Also, I do intend to write more about Saint Ignatius of Loyola and the Spiritual Exercises as well as Theology of the Body so stay tuned!
May God bless you on your journey this week!
Resources:
If you’re interested to learn more, here are a few resources you might want to check out:
An interesting article in Christianity Today defends the view that Jesus experienced trauma
Discerning Hearts with Father Timothy Gallagher is an excellent resource for learning about Ignatian Spirituality. Here’s the introduction episode on Youtube, but there’s a whole series that follows
Fr. Gallagher’s book on Discernment of Spirits
Robert Miller’s work on the Feeling-State Protocol
Christ is Among us!
Dr. Gerry Crete is the author of Litanies of the Heart: Relieving Post-traumatic Stress and Calming Anxiety Through Healing Our Parts which is published by Sophia Institute Press. He is the founder of Transfiguration Counseling and Coaching, Transfiguration Life, and co-founder of Souls and Hearts.
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More answers to your questions
If you have more questions about Catholicism, psychology, and parts and systems, you may want to browse our Resource Page by subject matter. We provide a host of written and recorded material for free on our website.
Join Dr. Gerry, Dr. Christian, and Dr. Peter live in the IIC podcast for a Q&A on grounding IFS and parts work in Catholicism
We’d love to see you on Tuesday, August 5, 2025 from 8:00 PM to 9:30 PM Eastern Time. We will start with a brief drop-in experiential exercise, and then take your questions. Our panel discussion will focus on the Catholic foundation for parts work approaches to flourishing, covering primarily episodes 166-170 of the Interior Integration for Catholics podcast. It will discuss how a Catholic understanding of IFS and parts and systems thinking was prefigured by Scripture, the Early Church Fathers, St. Augustine, St. Maximus, and St. Bonaventure. Registration is free but required; Dr. Gerry Crete, Dr. Christian Amalu, and we invite you to that conversation.
The Resilient Catholics Community
Are you getting more into a parts way of understanding yourself and others? Do you want a structured program to help you flourish in loving God, yourself, and others, and to aid you in the great prerequisite – embracing being loved yourself? If so, check out the Resilient Catholics Community and get on the interest list for the next cohort.
The PartsFinder Pro is a series of 22 measures that RCC applicants take online as part of the application process. The resulting PFP report gives descriptive hypotheses of 10-15 of your parts, speculates about their burdens and roles, and how these parts interact with each other, among many other parts-related hypotheses. You can download a PDF for a sample fictional report for a man and a woman.
Three opportunities for Catholic formators
If you’re a Catholic therapist, priest, spiritual director, coach, or other formator, someone who professionally accompanies others in their personal formation, we have three special offerings just for you.
- A special retreat in Bloomington, Indiana, this August with Dr. Peter and Bridget Adams. Join us in person for our “Being At Service” retreat, which will be held at the Mother of the Redeemer Retreat Center August 11-14. We have finalized our sessions and schedule in this PDF brochure. Check out the informational video here. Register here.
- Fall 2025 Foundations Experiential Groups (FEGs). We are now accepting registrations for groups starting in late August or early September 2025. We have limited spots with a team of IFS-trained leaders on a variety of days and times. Check out all this information and officially register here.
- Fall 2025 Advanced Groups. If you have already completed an FEG or Stepping Stones, or are IFS Level One trained, you are eligible for one of our Advanced Groups this fall, including two groups led by Dr. Gerry Crete. One group will discuss his book Litanies of the Heart, and a second brand new group is called The Flourishing Heart. See all details here.