Dear Souls & Hearts Member,
In the first week of Lent, I read Mgsr. Charles Pope’s 2025 book The Hell There Is, where he provides an abundance of evidence to counter the prominent idea of universalism, the idea that “all people will be eventually saved and go to heaven.” In universalism, hell is empty. Mgsr. Pope leads off his preface with this quote:
“Of all the theological errors commonly held today, the most popular is surely the denial of the doctrine of hell. Even among the more devout, such as those who go to daily Mass, the teaching that God would send or consign anyone to hell is routinely dismissed. If it exists at all, for many, it is largely empty, except perhaps for a few serial killers or genocidal maniacs like Hitler. But for the vast majority—Catholic, non-Catholic, and atheist—hell is a very remote possibility. Never mind that Jesus taught just the opposite, say that “few” are on the narrow road of Salvation and that “many” prefer the darkness (Jn 3:19) and are on the wide road that leads to hell (see Mt 7:13; Lk 13:24). Never mind that twenty-one of Jesus’s thirty-eight parables feature scenes of judgment where some are saved and others are lost. There are sheep and goats, wheat and tares, those on the right, those on the left, wise virgins and foolish virgins, and so forth. Indeed, most of the teachings on hell come right from the mouth of Jesus. But for most people, none of this matters.” [p. ix]
In his well-written and engaging book, Mgsr. Pope lays out the case for a hell that is actually well-populated, drawing from Scripture (especially the words of Jesus Himself), the early Church Fathers, the doctors of the Church, authoritative magisterial teaching, and other sources. He presents the perennial teachings of the Church on the reality of hell with clarity, mincing no words.
But he doesn’t focus on what I find to be a most compelling reason for hell.
I believe in hell because I’ve seen it.
To be clear, I wasn’t granted anything like the Fatima children’s vision of hell or Sr. Faustina Kowalska’s visit to hell with their panoramic, 3D experience of fire, demons, darkness, stench, shrieking, groaning, despair, hatred, tortures, terror, and sufferings. No.
I’ve had a different experience of hell, both in my own life, and in accompanying others as they experienced hell on earth, hell inside themselves.
What is hell?
Let’s back up and define our terms, starting with hell. What is hell? Catholic apologist Tim Staples in his Catholic Answers Magazine article from December 2025 titled “What is Hell?” brings out the central point: “Hell is primarily a state of being.” The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines this “state of being” in the following way: “This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called ‘hell.’” [§1033].
Hell is a willed separation from God, a refusal to enter into relationship with Him, as St. John Paul II noted in his General Audience from July 28, 1999: “Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God.”
Can one experience “hell on earth?”
I am convinced the answer is yes, at least a taste of hell.
Why?
We hear so many stories of saints (especially the mystics) experiencing a deep union with God, something that resembles beatific vision on earth (see here, here, here, and here for examples; there are many more). So is it unreasonable to believe that we might also be able to experience something of hell on earth?
Benedictine Monks Fr. Thomas Acklin and Fr. Boniface Hicks, in their excellent 2020 book Personal Prayer: A Guide for Receiving the Father's Love reference this personal, internal hell in the following two passages:
- “It is a place where Satan has a lot of power. If he could coax me into it, it is the place from which despair and suicide could come. Every one of us has such a place in us. Some people live there all the time. Some people have some awareness of that place but only fall back into it infrequently. Most of us live around the jaws of that hell but do not fall into it very often. Others of us get snapped right into it as soon as there is heartbreak and disappointment or personal sin, shame, or failure. All of us taste it when there is personal or emotional pain.” [p. 161, emphasis added].
- The truth is that there is an abyss in each of us that is ugly and dark until we let God’s light shine on it, and we let Him fill it with His love. [p. 162].
Decades ago, near the beginning of my career as a psychologist, I accompanied a woman with what Freud called “hysterical paralysis” would later be called “conversion disorder” and then renamed “Functional Neurological Symptom Disorder.” She presented with a nearly complete psychogenic paralysis of her arms, which she would move only slightly and with tremendous effort, and which cause significant challenges in daily living.
Exploration of her internal world revealed how she harbored an intense rage toward God. She had been raised Catholic, experienced spiritual trauma, and had parts with terrible God images (see the Interior Integration for Catholics podcast, episodes 23-29 for an extended discussion of God images). Some of her parts generated intense impulses to lash out at God and at others who tried to connect with her (including me); other parts of her were terrified about this propensity toward physical violence and shut down her ability to move her arms to prevent her from striking out in rage and harming others. This client shared how she had willfully renounced God and banished Him from her life. And she was miserable, perhaps the most miserable client I have ever met in my career.
Most of the time, a person’s inner hellscape is not so readily apparent to the self or to others. Parts come up with ingenious ways to escape, evade, avoid, and distract from the inner abyss, internal loneliness, the often self-imposed alienation, so that we skitter along the surface of our lives, never really coming in contact with our depths. Our culture of worldly distraction is now exquisitely tuned to turn our attention away from our depths, from connecting with our identity as a beloved little son or beloved little daughter of God in favor of lesser perceived goods.
But if you find yourself below the surface, within yourself or within another person, you will find a hellscape, where exiled parts suffer with burdens of all kinds, but most especially and in essence, a lack of being loved, and a lack of being included in loving. Many formators (therapists, coaches, spiritual directors) never get there with those they accompany, because they stay focused on the surface, and that’s often because they are unwilling to face their own inner hellscapes. As Zig Ziglar (among others) has said, “You can’t lead people to places you’re unwilling to grow into yourself.” Why? Because if you start touching into another’s hell, it will activate any unresolved hellish experiences of your own. That’s why.
When that happens, the parts down deep don’t connect with those who might love them, and love is what is curative. What’s even worse is that protective parts prevent love from reaching the exiles, so they don’t have an opportunity have a corrective relational experience and find out what love really is and who God really is. As long as the innermost self sanctions such self-protectiveness, the hellish aspects will continue.
In this situation, I resonate with Dante’s imagery of hell as frozen and icy, the alienation and isolation leaving the heart cold and hard.
Hell is not about who God is, but about what we choose…
Mgsr. Pope discusses a frequent objection to the existence of a populated hell when he writes that:
“In our time, God has largely been refashioned and trivialized. The Father has become a doting grandfather, and Jesus has become a harmless hippie. Gone is the God of Scripture, and He is replaced by the “Jesus I know,” and the “god of my understanding” who just wouldn’t do such a thing.” [p. x].
So many Catholics and other Christians ignore the warning from our Lord Himself, given through direct quotes in Sacred Scripture and through the teaching authority of the Church, preferring their own ideas, understandings, and intuitions, instead, making God in their own image, rather than accepting in humility what He has definitively revealed to us. I am reminded of Isaiah 55:8-9 which reads, “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
Also, God saw much deeper than the prophet Samuel when Samuel was tasked with selecting the future king of Israel from among Jesse's sons in 1 Samuel 16:6-7: “When they came, he [Samuel] looked on Eliab and thought, ‘Surely the Lord’s anointed is before him.’ But the Lord said to Samuel, ‘Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for the Lord sees not as man sees; man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.’”
God really isn’t the reason why anyone goes to hell. As Frs. Acklin and Hicks write:
“God never leaves us or distances Himself from us. God is always nearer to us than we are to ourselves. He will never withdraw from us or love us any less than infinitely. God is love and His love does not diminish, even for those who turn away from Him definitively like the fallen angels. He continues to love them even though in freedom He lets them cut themselves off from Him. He loves Satan no less than He has eternally loved him, and is no more distant from him than He has been since He created him. The same is true of us. He will always love us. His love will never lessen.” [p. 88-89].
The blame falls squarely on us humans when we distance ourselves from God, for whatever reason. God cannot keep from loving us because He is Love. Loving is part of His nature. His love is not conditional upon our response or lack thereof. That is so different from what parts of us experienced in other love relationships with authority figures, when love was conditional, when it was withheld (at least at times), when it was unattuned or too little, or distorted, or alloyed with things that were not love.
In the end, why we obstinately flee from God doesn’t change the outcome…
If I jump off the roof of a skyscraper, my motives for doing so won’t change the inevitable outcome. I’ll fall to my death, even if I thought I could fly, even if I assumed that gravity was an illusion or that the laws of physics didn’t apply to me personally.
More than 40 years ago, I saw a survival film named Survival! in which the final scenario featured a deer hunter in snowy conditions who made a series of minor mistakes that built upon each other until the point where, in panic and suffering now from paranoia secondary to hypothermia and disorientation, he fled from his would-be rescuers and hid from them. Parts with greatly distorted images of God flee from Him, and given how they see Him, it makes sense.
Parts battle inside, struggling to gain control of the system to further their agendas, which reminds me of a story of two wolves that is (erroneously) attributed to the Cherokee oral tradition, which goes something that like this:
An elder is teaching his grandson about life. "A terrible fight is going on inside me between two wolves" he said to the boy. "One wolf is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego." He continued, "The other wolf is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person, too." The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?" The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."
As I noted in my reflection from September 21, 2022 titled The Deepest Human Formation Work A Catholic Can Do, Catholic phenomenologist Dietrich Von Hildebrand discusses how we can sanction or disavow our internal experiences. He writes:
“By an act of our free personal center, we can either sanction or disavow our emotional attitude, which involves a far-reaching modification of the inmost nature of our attitudes. A mood of malicious satisfaction, for instance, which we expressly disavow in our mind is decapitated as it were; it is revoked and declared invalid, and thereby deprived not only of its outward efficacy, but to a large degree even of its intrinsic virulence….
A further distinction commands itself: it makes a considerable difference whether the personal sanction (that is, the ultimate act of assent or disapprobation relative to our spontaneous feeling [e.g. my Statue God image]) is issued isolatedly in any random event, as it were, or whether we expressly refer it back to our permanent and moral principles, our habitual basic intention [e.g. of my Catholic God image]. In the latter case, it has far more meaning and weight.” (p. 226 of Transformation in Christ, emphasis in original)
If we allow a negative God image to win out, even if we wish no malice on anyone but we just flee from God – we will wind up separated from God, by our own decisions.
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Chris Stefanick and Dr. Peter discuss hating your “worst self” and Chris getting into parts work
Just released! In this episode, Chris Stefanick and Dr. Peter discussing how frequently we hate the rejected and alienated parts of us in our inner hellscapes – our “worst selves.” We also discuss the remedy: interior integration. This is a great introduction to Internal Family Systems and parts work. Here’s the episode description:
What if the reason you keep struggling with the same sins, the same patterns, and the same emotional reactivity has nothing to do with a lack of willpower—and everything to do with a lack of interior integration? In this episode of The Chris Stefanick Show, Chris sits down with Catholic psychologist Dr. Peter Malinoski to unpack one of the most powerful—and underexplored—concepts in both psychology and Catholic tradition: interior integration. Dr. Malinoski explains what it means to be integrated, why St. Thomas Aquinas and the Desert Fathers were already talking about this centuries ago, and why modern Catholics have largely lost touch with it. He introduces Internal Family Systems (IFS)—a psychology framework rooted in the idea that we each have an "innermost self" and a multiplicity of inner "parts"—and shows how this maps beautifully onto Catholic anthropology and even the Trinity itself.
The Resilient Catholic Community is about to reopen – join us for an information Zoom meeting on Tuesday, May 26, 2026
Are you ready to go into your own depths, to care for and love your parts? The Resilient Catholics Community offers you a way to deeply engage with all your parts, in a step-by-step, structured program with likeminded Catholics, on a pilgrimage to flourishing in the entirety of your being.
If the concept of parts resonates with you, if you want to bring light and joy to all your parts, and if you want to do this parts work in community, together with others like you, consider applying to the RCC. Find out so much more on our RCC landing page.
Got questions? Reach out to us at crisis@soulsandhearts.com or call Dr. Peter at 317.567.9594 and/or join us online for an informational Zoom meeting on Tuesday, May 26, 2026 from 8:30 PM to 9:30 PM Eastern time; here is the link to register for the Zoom meeting. We will post the recording of the informational meeting on the RCC landing page afterward.
As part of the application process, you will take the PartsFinder Pro, a series of 23 measures to help you understand and connect with 12 to 15 of your parts – managers, firefighters, and exiles. The PartsFinder Pro can help you jumpstart your parts work journey. Check our these downloadable PDFs of sample fictional reports for a man and a woman.
Check out our 19-minute experiential exercise to help you discern about applying to the RCC. And if you’d like to start the journey with us, sign up on our interest list for the St. Mary Magdelene on our RCC landing page; applications are accepted throughout the month of June, and programming will begin in mid-September.
Retreat opportunity Catholic therapists, coaches, spiritual directors, and priests
The Second Annual Formators Retreat is titled Authentic Being and Authentic Relating and it will be on August 10-13, 2026 at the Mother of the Redeemer Retreat Center in Bloomington, Indiana.
You Catholic formators (therapists, coaches, spiritual directors, priests, any Catholic who accompanies others in formation) have the opportunity to make a leap forward in your own personal human formation work so that you can better accompany others into their depths.
Our theme is “Authentic Being and Authentic Relating.” Authentic means genuine, real, true, trustworthy, and reliable. To be fully authentic means being fully present, not part disconnected, no part neglected, no part rejected, no part subjected to condemnation and abandonment, no part left behind. In short, authenticity requires interior integration.
This retreat focuses on you finding and loving you in more of your parts, including parts you have not yet encountered – your exiles, down in your inner hellscapes – and for those parts you have met, but who your manager parts frequently forget. And, we focus on how your parts can help you “be with” others in formation in ways that lead to healing and flourishing.
In the supportive holding environment of the retreat and with your fellow retreatants, you will work on becoming more integrated inside. Becoming more “wholly” you accelerates you becoming a more “holy” you. Why? Because grace perfects nature. Shoring up your natural human formation foundation will support and enliven your spiritual, intellectual, and pastoral formation, as St. John Paul II maintains. Find our more on our Formation for Formators Retreat landing page and register if you are ready to join us.