IIC 33: Being Open and Coping Well

Openness, trust, and confidence in God. Dr. Peter discusses these areas and leads listeners in an exercise that can help them grow in openness and increase awareness.

[00:00:12] Welcome to the podcast Coronavirus Crisis Carpe Diem, where by God’s grace, you and I rise up and embrace the possibilities and opportunities for spiritual and psychological growth in this time of crisis, all grounded in a Catholic worldview. We are going beyond mere resilience to rising up to the challenges of this pandemic and becoming even healthier in the natural and the spiritual realms than we were before. I’m clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski, your host and guide with Souls and Hearts at soulsandhearts.com. Thank you for being here with me. This is episode 33, released on September 14th, 2020, and it is titled Being Open and Coping Well. We are going to explore openness in the natural realm today. That’s going to be the focus. We’re going to go deep into that. What does openness mean? How do psychologists understand the construct of openness? How do we live that out? How do we have greater openness? And how do we make the distinctions between when we should be open and when we shouldn’t be open? That’s going to be the whole focus of the show today. And as a special bonus, we’re going to also be exploring the importance of being closed. We’re going to have a little section on the importance of being closed. So stay tuned for that. Those of you that grew up with me in the 1970s, maybe in the 1980s, watching Sesame Street, knew their little routine on abierto, cerro, right. That’s the open and closed.

[00:01:53] We’re going to be discussing openness and closeness. So just a quick review. Where have we been in the last few sessions? In the last session we discussed ways to increase trust, especially given, you know, negative experiences, attachment injuries, attachment wounds when we were growing up, especially from birth to 24 months. And I got a lot of really positive feedback about the exercise that we did there. That was really helpful to a lot of people in that last session. So we’re going to do another one today. Stay with me to the end and we’ll do another exercise there. The thing about trust is that it’s the one thing that separates those who are resilient from those who are not. It’s childlike trust, and that’s particularly trusting in God’s goodness and his providence for me in particular. If you can hold on to that, that’s going to separate you from those who are not resilient. So everything’s going back to this childlike trust, this absolute confidence in God. So we’re in this section right now where we’re evaluating trust versus mistrust. Remember, that’s where Erik Erikson and John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth and all these developmental psychologists said that that’s really the central thing from 0 to 24 months, trust versus mistrust. And we mistrust God so much because we try to be way too big. Right. And just a quick review. Trust is faith in action. It’s faith. Trust is faith enacted.

[00:03:24] It’s faith lived out in the actions and the behaviors of day-to-day life. Okay, so there is this reciprocal relationship between openness and trust. And they grow in concert together. Some might ask, you know, Dr. Peter, which comes first, the openness or the trust? Is it the trust or the openness? And really, they grow together. You become a little more open and then you trust a little more and you see that that works out with God. And so the trust increases, which helps you be open even more and that helps you trust more. So they kind of go back and forth in this iterative dance. There’s a dance between openness and trust. One of the hallmarks of this whole podcast, this Coronavirus Crisis Carpe Diem podcast, is that while it’s Catholic, I bring in a lot of ideas from people that are not Catholic. It’s what makes this podcast different. We’re open to new ideas. We’re open to insights, to ways of seeing that non-Catholics have, that we can incorporate. And so, you know, when you think about catholic, catholic with a small C, that means universal. And one of my favorite passages from Saint Augustine is from his book On Christian Doctrine. Okay. Chapter 40 has a great title. Again, you know how I love titles of book chapters. Well, chapter 40, this is the translation. “Whatever has been rightly said by the heathen we must appropriate to our uses.”

[00:05:03] Saint Augustine. Whatever has been rightly said by the heathen, we must appropriate to our uses. It doesn’t mean that we just, anything that’s not Catholic, we just ignore, we just shove away. No, he’s saying in paragraph number 60 that, “Branches of heathen learning contain also liberal instruction, which is better adapted to the use of the truth, and some most excellent precepts of morality and some truths in regard even to the worship of the one God, are found among them.” Whoa! Saint Augustine saying, we can learn from the heathen, right? The non-Christians, the non-Catholics. He said, and not only can we learn from them, we should learn from them. We should learn from them. And as a psychologist, that’s been really, really critical to me. Right. What Augustine is saying is that not only can we learn things about the natural world, not only can there be natural learning, but there are truths that we can learn from non-Catholics regarding the worship of God. Right? Spiritual truths can be learned from non-Catholics. Now, I am not an indifferentist, right? The heresy of indifferentism is basically saying that all faiths are kind of the same. All faiths have their truth. All faiths lead to God. No. Absolutely not. I do not believe that. That is not what I’m saying here. That’s not what Saint Augustine is saying here. But we need to be open to the way God wishes to show us things.

[00:06:45] Let me give you an example. I don’t know how many times I have heard psychology being dismissed out of hand by Catholics because of Freud and specifically Freud’s views on religion. And on one level, I get that, right. Freud thought that God was an illusion. He said that, you know, basically God didn’t exist. Human beings are like infants who need a big, strong father to keep us safe and secure, a great big daddy in the sky to watch over us. He said religion had its uses to keep the unwashed masses subdued so that civilization could develop. You know, we needed something to keep us under control. Something to restrain our violent impulses and keep life on earth from turning into an episode from Jerry Springer. I mean, those weren’t the exact words he used, but that was the sense of it. But he was saying, look, now we have reason, now we have science, and that’s going to take the place of religion, very 20th century, very much part of that whole modernistic idea that was coming into the culture at the time. And I travel in a lot of traditional Catholic circles. I attend the Latin Mass. I love the beauty of the ancient Mass. There’s not a lot of traditional Catholic psychologists out there. And so I’ve consulted nationwide. People have come from all over the country, plus other countries to Indianapolis to see me usually on the recommendation of their traditional Catholic priest.

[00:08:16] And they brought with them a lot of suspicion about psychology, oftentimes, a lot of rejection of psychology. But they’re coming to me under obedience or sometimes because they’re desperate. But I’m just going to ask you to step back for a second and listen to what Freud is saying. Freud is saying in no uncertain terms that we have this deep infantile need for a father. He says it more clearly than a lot of Catholic speakers do. You know, what Catholic media personalities have you heard really driving home the point that we’re little, that we’re like infants and toddlers in desperate need of a father. Freud found part of this truth, right? He also discovered, well, actually, that’s not true. He didn’t discover the unconscious, but he popularized it. Right. There was huge pushback from many Catholics, many Catholic circles when he was first disseminating his ideas. And it’s understandable. I mean, his hostility towards the church, you know, and and rightfully so. Priests, bishops were concerned about were concerned about the eternal souls of the flock. Right. So there was this sorting out that had to happen. But Freud found part of the truth, right, with these infantile needs that we have for a father and with the unconscious. And he promoted that. God used him in certain ways to bring that about. Let’s talk about biology right now. When you were in junior high, maybe high school, you learned about the double helix structure of DNA, right? And it’s beautiful, actually, if you can see some of these images of DNA.

[00:10:01] It’s an amazing, beautiful creation. And you may have learned back when you were in junior high or high school, that James Watson and Francis Crick discovered the double helix structure of DNA, with a couple of other collaborators in 1953. In 1962, they were granted the Nobel Prize for it. James Watson is still alive. He’s 92 or 93 years old. He’s caught a lot of heat in recent years for a lot of racist comments that he’s made, anti-Semitic comments as well. And what you might not know is that all of his titles, all of his awards have been revoked by his laboratory, the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, because of these comments. He’s a proponent of infanticide up to three days. He said, “If a child were not declared alive until three days after birth, then all parents could be allowed the choice that only a few have under the present system. The doctor could allow the child to die if the parents so choose and save a lot of misery and suffering. I believe this view is the only rational, compassionate attitude to have.” All right, so this is James Watson advocating for infanticide up to three days after birth in order to provide the option for killing children that may have birth defects. He was raised Catholic.

[00:11:25] James Watson was raised Catholic, but later described himself as, “an escapee from the Catholic religion.” And he also said that the luckiest thing that ever happened to him was that his father didn’t believe in God. Right. Very anti-Catholic. Let’s talk about Crick. Right, Francis Crick, the co-discoverer. Right. He also agreed with the infanticide program. He said in 1978 to the Pacific News Service that, “No newborn infant should be declared human until it has passed certain tests regarding its genetic endowment, and if it fails those tests, it forfeits the right to live.” All right. And this scientist, Francis Crick, was a fiery atheist. He saw himself as a champion to drive out religious belief in academia. For example, back in 1960, when he took a position at Churchill College in Cambridge, he said that, one of the conditions he had in taking that appointment was that there would be no chapel built ever. Right, and a few years later, there was a huge donation to build a chapel. The faculty voted on it, said yes, and he resigned his position. Right. He believes that he stood in direct opposition to Catholicism, or at least his understanding of Catholicism. He hated Catholicism. And so here we have Watson and Crick, two very anti-Catholic scientists. But they discovered DNA. And who of us questions the double helix structure of DNA. We don’t. We accept that.

[00:13:05] Right. So we are taking in things from not only non-Catholics, but anti-Catholics. Right? Because both of them are very strident in their anti-Catholic positions. There’s another reason that I look for solutions, that I look for knowledge from non-Catholic sources. And that is because as a psychologist, I have to. I have to, right. I challenge anybody to find an effective treatment for bulimia in the writings of the early Church Fathers. Right. I challenge anybody to come up with really good treatments for complex trauma in the writings of the Doctors of the Church. There’s helpful things in there, but there are discoveries that non-Catholic clinicians are making that are vitally important, and we need to be open to those things. And I want to bring those to you, but not in just their raw form. I really want to talk with you about how to ground these things in a Catholic anthropology, in a Catholic worldview. That’s what this podcast is all about. It’s helping you to become more resilient. It’s helping you to become better able to tolerate being loved, tolerate being loved by God, tolerate being loved by others, and to love God and others in return. All right, so let’s talk about openness. Openness is actually one of the five major personality factors, right? One of the big five. They’re called the big five because these are the personality traits that have emerged in the research over the last several decades. Those five personality traits are: neuroticism, extroversion, openness, agreeableness, and conscientiousness.

[00:14:50] Those are the big five. And the idea in personality assessment is that you can actually look at where a person falls along a continuum of each of these five dimensions and get a pretty good idea of who they are. Now, I don’t happen to believe that. I did personality assessment for a long time, was very interested in single unitary ideas of personality. I did that for 15 years. In recent years, I have become more and more suspect of personality assessment in general, in terms of being able to capture the richness and the fullness of individuals. But this is where the state of the science is right now. I actually believe that we operate in different modes, that we have different parts, and that depending on what mode we’re operating in, our “personality” could look very, very different. So I believe that we actually have many personalities, several personalities rather than just one. But even if you’re looking at what mode you’re operating in right now, it’s still very valuable to look at these five personality traits, right? And so today we’re talking about openness. According to psychologists, these personality researchers, open individuals are curious. They’re curious about their inner world. They’re curious about their outer world. They have rich lives experientially, especially compared to individuals who are more closed. Right? They’re characterized by being unconventional. They’re willing to question authority. They’re prepared to consider new ethical, social, and political ideas.

[00:16:26] They’re, in a word, open, right. And within this particular big five factor, number three, if you will, of the big five, openness, there is a breakdown of six domains or subdomains of openness. And I’m just going to tick through those real quick. And then we’ll spend a little time just discussing each one of them. So the first one is openness to fantasy. Second, openness to aesthetics. Third, openness to feelings. Fourth, openness to actions. Fifth, openness to ideas. And six, openness to values. Right. So fantasy, aesthetics, feelings, actions, ideas, and values. We’re just going to go through each one of these rather briefly. So the first one, openness to fantasy. Here’s where individuals with high levels of openness to fantasy have a vivid imagination and active fantasy life. And they daydream not only as an escape or as a coping mechanism, but as a way of creating an interesting inner world for themselves. Openness to aesthetics. Right? These individuals have a deep appreciation for art, for beauty. They find themselves moved by poetry. They can get absorbed into music. They’re intrigued by painting, sculpture. There is an you know, as it says, there’s an aesthetic. There’s a value for aesthetic. Third one, openness to feelings. If you have high levels of openness to feelings, there’s a receptivity to my own inner feelings and emotions and a consideration of emotion as important in life. Deeper emotional states are experienced by people who are open to their feelings, and they also have more differentiated emotional states.

[00:18:31] So what does that mean in English, Dr. Peter? Differentiated emotional states means that you can tell the difference among different emotions that you’re experiencing. Folks that are more open to feelings often feel their emotions more keenly as well. So the fourth one, openness to actions. This has a lot to do with the willingness to try different activities, the willingness to go to new places, maybe to eat something that is unusual for you. There’s a preference for novelty, a preference for variety over familiarity and routines. Folks with an openness to actions are willing to do more trial and error behaviors. Let’s just try it and see what happens, is the kind of idea. And so they may change their hobbies. Their interests may change because they’re trying out a variety of new, different things. All right. The fifth one, openness to ideas. All right. So intellectual curiosity comes in here, you know, pursuing intellectual interests for their own sake, not because there’s some pragmatic reason to learn a new thing, but learning for its own sake. There’s a willingness to consider new and unconventional ideas. Folks with this openness to ideas like philosophical arguments, they like sort of the give and take. Sixth, openness to values. All right. This is where individuals are willing to reexamine and reevaluate social, political, and religious values. Closed individuals are more likely to accept authority and honor tradition.

[00:20:16] Those that are open to values are sort of like the opposite of dogmatism. I think that’s actually not true, because I think one of the ways that we can think about this as Catholics is that we can be open to new ways to understand the faith, rather than having to change the faith or change our religion. Right. So what do I want to say about openness today? Well, one thing is the thing that I’ve kind of talked about before, that is that this openness and trust are reciprocal, right? They kind of go together, they’re mutual, a little bit more openness to try some new things, to be in a different way. That works out, okay, then we can we have a little more trust, right? And that helps us to be a little more open. And it kind of goes back and forth. What happens as we begin to do this, though, is that that awe and wonder begin to come in. The awe and wonder begin to come in, once that trust and openness is increased, because we can, in a word, experience more of God and who he really is. I want to discuss openness in four different aspects, though. I like to think about this differently than the particular ways that the NEO-PI-3 authors have laid it out in their personality inventory and the way that factor analytic studies have laid it out. I like to think about openness in terms of the four sets.

[00:21:46] I come back to this a lot. Mindset, heartset, bodyset, and soulset. I think it covers the same ground, but with a little different take. And so I’d like to walk you through that. So openness in mindset, again goes back to that creative thinking, that thinking outside the box. You know, being open to new ideas. You can see that in terms of the fifth of the sixth subdomains, that openness to ideas, that intellectual curiosity, kind of maps on to mindset. You know, I’m thinking of Isaiah 55, right? Where God tells us, “Your ways are not my ways. Your thoughts are not my thoughts. As high as the heaven is above the earth are my thoughts above your thoughts and my ways above your ways.” Right? So that’s one of my favorite passages of the Old Testament because God is saying, look, I’ve got a way of thinking and a way of being and a way of acting that is so far beyond anything that you can even conceptualize, right? We want to be open to that, right? So mindset, we have to be able to say, look, I might not be understanding this in its totality, in its completeness. So it ties in with humility, humility on a natural level. Heartset, all right. This is the emotions, intuitions, the ways of the heart, right? Our Lord in Ezekiel 11:19 says, “And I will give them one heart and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh.”

[00:23:40] Right. So the way that we can be open to our hearts being changed, our hearts being shaped, you know, and the heart being the seat of our emotions, right? The place where we feel things intensely. Openness in our body. Right. Now, this is actually counterintuitive to a lot of people, but we’ll actually be working on some of this in our brief exercise at the end of this podcast. Openness to our body. That means like paying attention to what’s going on in our body sensations. You know, in the Western world today, we are often really detached and disconnected from our bodies. And there are reasons for that. That’s been a theme at different points in different episodes in the past on this podcast. But being open to feeling the sensations that we have in our bodies. And then of course, openness in our soul, right? Openness when it comes to religious experiences and so forth. And if we think back, we can have been closed to a lot of things here. I mean, all of you know people that are closed in various ways with regard to their minds or their hearts or their bodies or their souls. Right. I see a lot of this in frankly, Catholic therapeutic approaches, right? For example, I think a lot of Catholic therapists prefer cognitive behavioral therapy, not only because that was sort of the primary, that’s been the primary treatment modality or the primary theoretical orientation that’s been taught for the last 30 years, but also because it sort of seems safe.

[00:25:22] Right? It seems like it can be harmonized relatively easily with a Catholic anthropology. Same thing with medications. I’ve come across this phenomenon where a lot of serious Catholic clients seem somehow to believe that taking medications is safer than doing therapy. That because somehow the therapy may corrupt them. You know, there was a brouhaha that happened about three years ago, in 2017. There was an article about this that came out in the September 8th, 2017 issue of The New Yorker, called “The Pope’s Shrink and Catholicism’s Uneasy Relationship with Freud.” It’s actually worth the read. It’s available on the internet. It talked about how, when the Pope was 42 years old, and at that time he was the provincial superior of the Jesuits in Argentina, this would have been 1979, somewhere around there, where the dirty war was happening in Argentina. There was a lot of conflict going on within the country. The Pope talked about how he went to see a psychoanalyst, and a psychoanalyst is one of the, you might say, heirs of Freud. Right. So this was 1979, a psychoanalyst who was Jewish and a woman, you know, that he went to her home once a week to clarify certain things.

[00:26:50] He talked about this in a book of interviews that was published by a sociologist named Dominique Walton. And the Pope said, “For six months, I went to her home once a week to clarify certain things. She was very good. She was very professional as a doctor and as a psychoanalyst, and she always knew her place.” All right. So the Pope went to therapy, right. When this came out, though, people were critical of the Pope. How could you go see someone who wasn’t Catholic? How could you go see someone who was Jewish? Right. You know, the Novus Ordo Watch, the website, you know, got all uptight about it and, you know, called it a smoking gun and so forth. So regardless of what you think about Pope Francis, and here at Souls and Hearts, and in this podcast and in the Resilient Catholics Carpe Diem community, we don’t want to get into polemical discussions about the Pope or anyone else. We’re not here to badmouth anyone. But I’m glad that the Pope could go and get the help he needed. And if that was from a Jewish psychoanalyst, wonderful. Like why not? Right. I guess the idea is maybe that he wouldn’t be Catholic or that explains, you know, some of latent non-Catholic ideas that he has. But I mean, again, I don’t want us to be just enclosed in what we can find, you know, in just purely Catholic sources.

[00:28:28] Okay. So, at the same time, though, there can be problematic openness, openness when we actually need to be closed. Right. And so let’s just start in Genesis, where I often do with questions like this, right? Might have been better for Adam and Eve to be closed to the suggestions from Satan, you know, in the serpent, right? Like, maybe we shouldn’t have eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, right? Would have been better to be closed to that discussion and to those ideas. Right. You know, in poetry, right. Lewis Carroll, when I was in eighth grade, I entered a poetry competition and I recited The Walrus and the Carpenter, by Lewis Carroll. And in that poem, you can look it up. It’s easy to get online. You can look at the plight of the overly open oysters. Right. They were opened and eaten by the walrus and the carpenter after having been deceived by them. Only one oyster survived. That was the old oyster that was suspicious of these two characters. And then also to the point was, I think, the tragic story of the American Catholic Psychology Association that had been founded in 1948 and originally was faithful to the Magisterium of the Church, but over the course of 25, 27 years lost its Catholic identity, became very open to all kinds of non-Catholic ideas.

[00:30:09] 60 of its members proclaimed that Humanae Vitae in 1968 violated a sense of the psychology of man, was not consistent with a Catholic understanding of the human person, a Catholic psychological understanding of the human person. Eventually, they completely lost their Catholic identity, renamed themselves psychologists interested in religious issues, dropped all references to Catholicism out of their name, and eventually were incorporated into the American Psychological Association. That story was actually really interesting to me because back when I first wanted to enter into graduate school, this was back in the late 80s, early 90s. I kept looking, I kept looking for a Catholic organization, and I heard about this organization, but I could find no trace of them at the time. This whole story was documented very well in a book called Psychology and Catholicism: Contested Boundaries, by Robert Kugelmann of the University of Dallas. The whole book is an excellent history of what happened in the relationship between Catholicism and psychology in the US. So now we’re going to do, you know, this exercise where we’re going to work on a little bit of openness. We’re going to work on just a little bit of openness. Okay. So I’m going to invite you. Now if you’re driving or if you’re operating heavy machinery, or if your attention has to be divided with some other task, it’s best to delay this part of it until afterward, right? Just because, you know, when we actually do really attune to ourselves and want to become open to ourselves, we’ve got to create a time and a place for that that’s specific and dedicated.

[00:31:54] We want to create a time and a place for that that’s specific and dedicated to that work. And so this isn’t something that you can do if you’re running or exercising. It’s not optimal to do it that way. Again, bear in mind that if we seek, we’ll find, right. Seek and ye shall find, our Lord tells us. Most of the time, though, we don’t seek, right, and so therefore we don’t find. All this not finding has to do with not seeking. But if we create this space to really seek. And around this theme of openness, right? What is it that we might not be open to? What is it that would be good for us to know in the natural realm? Okay. In this whole podcast episode, I’m dealing with openness in the natural realm. In the next podcast, the one that comes out a week from now, we’re going to be getting into openness in the spiritual realm, and we’re going to be talking about receptivity and how this plays out in the faith. Today, we’re just staying within the realm of the natural. So I’m going to invite you to just take a minute, take some breaths, slow down your nervous system.

[00:33:07] If you’re comfortable with it, close your eyes. And if you’re uncomfortable with any of this, don’t do it. Take what applies to you, right? If this doesn’t feel safe or if you feel like you could get activated in some way, you know, you know, be mindful of that. Be open to that, right? And it might not be your thing right now, might not be the best thing for you right now. But if you’ve got a good disposition, if you’ve got a good sense, a good disposition towards this, I’m just going to invite you to pay attention to what’s going on in your body. I’m going to invite you to be open to the awareness of your body. I’m going to invite you to let your interest in your body grow. A kind of healthy awareness of whatever is happening in your body right now. And I’m going to invite you also to just see what that body sensation may want you to know, what it may want you to know about yourself, and about where you are right now. We often hold things in our bodies that are not in our awareness. So this is building a bridge between our bodies and our minds, along which we can find out some things that we really need to slow down in order to hear and accept.

[00:35:01] So listening to that body sensation, focusing in on it. Being open to what it may have to tell us about ourselves, so that we can hear our own selves, needs, emotions, thoughts, attitudes, in a way that is gentle and calm. Something about you. Something about today. Something about your important relationships. Whatever that body sensation needs you to know. Okay. And so it’s just a little taste of the kinds of things that we do in the Resilient Catholics Carpe Diem Community. In fact, I’m going to do a much longer, more involved exercise in a premium podcast that’s coming out also today for the Resilient Catholics Carpe Diem community. So if you find that, you know, hey, these little snippets of exercises that I do in the podcast are really appealing to you and you want to learn more, I’m going to invite you to join the Resilient Catholics Carpe Diem community. You can do that by going to the Souls and Hearts website, and then you click on the All Courses and Shows, tab up at the top, and click on the Resilient Catholics Carpe Diem community. And if you do that soon, if you do that by September 18th, which is this coming Friday, 2020. All right, if you do that by September 18th, 2020, you’ll get the first month free. You’ll get a free 30-day trial. On September 18th, we’re shutting that down. So it’ll just be $25 a month after that.

[00:37:33] One of the things about the community that I think is just so valuable is that there’s so much interaction going on. We had this really great conversation last Thursday night. It was on the 10th. It was on the 10th of September. And we were talking about how do we really connect in a deep way with Mary, with our mother, in order to overcome negative God images. And that launched a discussion. And there were 28 posts in that, 28 or 29 posts within 24 hours, you know, people were coming back, they were discussing, comparing their experiences and so forth. So if you are really interested in learning how to accept love and how to love God and neighbor better, and you want a psychologically-informed approach to that, you want to understand how you can shore up the natural foundation, your natural foundation for the spiritual life. You know, our community is the place to be. It’s more active than ever. There’s no place like it. There’s no place like it anywhere else on the internet that I know of. And the whole community is working together to grow more and more resilient, both in the natural realm and in the psychological realm. So, let’s start the conversation on this episode. I want to let you know also that if you are thinking about joining the community, we’re going to shut down the new admissions to the community on November 3rd, and those will be shut down for a few months.

[00:39:06] We’re going to be focusing on how we as a community can get consolidated. We’re doing a lot of program planning, looking at what courses we need to make available in the community, what kinds of things the community needs, and I just am looking forward to having a break from new people coming in order to be able to really go deeper in the community as we head into as we head into November and December and January and February. So over the winter, at least, we’re going to be consolidating that. When we reopen the community, the price is going to be higher. I haven’t figured all that out yet, but I want you to also know about that potential benefit. So if you’ve been sitting on the fence thinking about it, you know, I would recommend that you just check it out, see if it’s for you. Also just check out the other things that we’ve got going on in Souls and Hearts. We have great blogs that come out. We have the Be with the Word show, which is both on YouTube and it’s also in podcast form, where Dr. Gerry and I take this psychological view of the Sunday Scriptures. So take advantage of that as well. So without any further discussion, we’ll go to our patroness and our patron. Mary, our Mother, Undoer of Knots, pray for us. Saint John the Baptist, pray for us.