IIC 22: The Core of Catholic Resilience

Dr. Peter Malinoski discusses the essential core of resilience for Catholics, gets into how resilience is undermined and also discusses temptations and resilience.

[00:00:12] Welcome to the podcast Coronavirus Crisis Carpe Diem, where you and I rise up and embrace the possibilities and opportunities for spiritual and psychological growth in this time of crisis, all grounded in a Catholic worldview. We are going beyond mere resilience to rising up to the challenges of this pandemic and becoming even healthier in the natural and the spiritual realms than we were before. I’m clinical psychologist Peter Malinoski. I am your host and guide with Souls and Hearts at soulsandhearts.com. Thank you for being here with me. This is episode 22 and it’s called The Core of Catholic Resilience. Today we are going to the core of Catholic resilience. We are going to discover what drives resilience in the saints. We are discussing the one central theme that is absolutely essential for the kind of resilience that transcends this natural world and incorporates not just our natural gifts, but grace as well. The saints are the most resilient people who ever walked the face of the earth. What is the secret of the resilience of the saints? That’s the question we’re addressing today. What is the secret of the super resilience that the saints have, the secret that allows them to rise up again and again when they fall under the weight of adversity, of persecution, of their own failings, of their own weaknesses and sins? What makes them different? We’re going to get to that in just a moment. Now, I’m a believer in spiral learning, especially for this podcast and for all the online learning at Souls and Hearts.

[00:01:55] So what is spiral learning? Guess what? It’s definition time with Dr. Peter. So in a spiral learning approach, which is what we’re using here in this podcast, in a spiral learning approach, the basic facts of a subject are learned without worrying much about the details. Just the main plain concepts first. And as the learning progresses, more and more details are introduced. These new details are related to the basic concepts, which are re-emphasized many times to help them enter into your long-term memory. To review spiral learning, we’re not worrying about the details. We’re getting the main points solidly in place. We’ll elaborate those over time. We’ll introduce details as time goes on. I want you to integrate what you learn in these podcasts into the whole of your being, not just have them go in one ear and out the other ear, but for you really to grip on to them, to really hold them, to be able to hang on to them even when times are tough, even when you’re in a dark place, even when emotions run high. That’s what’s really important. My self-defense instructor James Yeager, in a fighting pistol course I took several years ago taught the class that, and this is his quote: “The only things you really possess are those things you can carry with you at a dead run.” He was referring to our gear on one hand.

[00:03:27] He was referring to the actual weapons we had and the gear that we carried with us. But he also was really focusing on mindset. He’s really big on mindset. James Yeager is really about having your head right in crisis situations. And he really worked with us, his students, to integrate his teachings throughout their whole beings, to have the right responses come up habitually, automatically, reflexively in crisis situations. I want that for you in the spiritual life and in the psychological life. So in these podcasts, in the actual episodes, we’re going to be nourishing the mind. We’re going to be focusing on the concepts. We’re going to be starting there. We’re also going to do a little bit of experiential work in these podcasts. We’re going to be working, you know, somewhat with your heartset, with your soulset and your bodyset as well. But since we are on this hard road together in the Christian life, I want to make the learning about Catholic resilience and growing in resilience as easy as possible for you. So we’re going to spiral upward. We’re going to come back to the main themes in this podcast over and over again with new details in the episodes, with new data points, with lots of examples, and of course, with stories. As a psychologist and educator, I want this to be really easy for you to take in. Another benefit of a spiral learning approach is that each podcast episode can stand on its own.

[00:04:59] It can stand alone. You can just pick up in the middle of the series on resilience. You can get the background you need for the topic of the day, for the topic of the episode. So I’m really thinking about you and I’m really thinking about how you take information in when I put these podcasts together. All right. So to that end with the spiral learning, let’s briefly review what we’ve learned in this series on Catholic resilience so far. In episode 20, two weeks ago, we discussed the ten factors of resilience offered by the secular experts. Those were the ten essential aspects of resilience, as summarized by Southwick and Charney, two writers for a general audience on resilience, two writers whom I respect in episode 21. That’s the last week. Last episode, we got into three major ways that secular understandings of resilience are lacking, three ways that they come up short from a Catholic perspective. Three important mistakes that secular professionals make in understanding resilience, the things that they miss because of their non-Catholic worldviews. Now, if you have the time, you can check out these two episodes. If you want to do that, by all means, go ahead. They help to put today’s learning into context, but suffice it to say for today that Catholic resilience is very different from a secular understanding of resilience. And we are going to the core of Catholic resilience today.

[00:06:23] So in the last episode, I offered a definition of Catholic resilience, a definition of Catholic resilience, comparing it to secular understandings of resilience. So now just to get us all up to speed, let’s review that definition of Catholic resilience, because I really want that to stay with you. So once again, it’s definition time with Dr. Peter. So what is Catholic resilience? This is my definition. Catholic resilience is “the process of accepting and embracing adversity, trauma, trials, stresses, and suffering as crosses. Catholic resilience sees those crosses as gifts from our loving, attuned God, gifts to transform us, to make us holy, to help us be better able to love and to be loved than we ever were before, and ultimately to bring us into loving union with him.” Okay, so today we’re taking a deep dive into the one essential requirement, the one prerequisite, the one necessary quality that you have to have to be resilient as a Catholic. All the other factors of Catholic resilience are secondary to this one core central principle. Now you may be asking, Dr. Peter, what is the core of this resilience? What is this central principle of Catholic resilience? Well, I’m glad you asked. The core of Catholic resilience, the core of the kind of resilience of the saints, is a deep and abiding confidence in God, especially in God’s providence. Let’s review that again. The core of Catholic resilience is a deep and abiding confidence in God, especially in God’s providential care, especially in God’s providential love for me, particularly.

[00:08:36] So what I’m saying is that resilience is an effect. It’s a consequence of this deep, abiding confidence in God, especially in God’s providential care, especially in his love for us. Resilience flows from that confidence in God and that confidence in God’s relationship with me specifically. So resilience is an effect of that confidence in God. Okay, so let’s break this down. Let’s make sure that we are on the same page. What do I mean by confidence in God? What do I mean by confidence in God? Sounds like we’ve got another definition with Dr. Peter here. Saint Thomas Aquinas defines confidence in God as, “A hope fortified by solid conviction.” Confidence in God, Saint Thomas Aquinas, a hope fortified by solid conviction. So confidence in God is a hope, but it is a hope fortified. It’s not just an ordinary hope. An ordinary hope could be lost. It’s a higher level of hope. It’s a hope fortified by solid conviction. The difference between hope and confidence is only a matter of degree. They are the same, but confidence is at a higher level because it is fortified by solid conviction. It’s a hope supercharged. A super hope. As King David sang in Psalm 119, “In verba tua super speravi.” That’s how the Latin reads, “in verba tua super speravi.” Speravi in Latin means “I have hoped.” In super speravi means “I have hoped to the highest level.”

[00:10:32] It’s a superlative. Now the typical translation, the one that you’ll see in the revised Standard Version Catholic edition, the one you’ll see in the Douay-Rheims simply reads, “I have hoped in thy word.” But what this really translates to is, “In your word, I have super hoped.” In verba tua super speravi. The translations don’t make a distinction between super speravi and speravi, which I think is a real weakness of those translations. But we don’t have a great way of saying that in a concise way in English. English is actually a terrible language for expressing internal experience. It’s very limited in a lot of ways. It’s kind of frustrating, but that’s another story. So let’s take a look at this solid conviction. So what does solid mean? What does that mean? Solid, firm, grounded, immovable, consistent, conviction. What are we talking about with conviction? Certainty, certitude, calm, assurance. Not a shadow of a doubt. So the confidence in God, that’s a hope fortified by solid conviction. A supercharged hope solidified by calm assurance, without wavering, without doubting. Not subject to the ups and downs of our internal experience. What I’m saying is that if we have that kind of confidence in God, and especially in his providential care, especially in his love for us, and that’s important. It can’t just be that God exists. Deists believe that God exists, but that he’s just distant, remote, disengaged.

[00:12:04] A belief in God like that is not going to help us. It’s not going to help resilience. It’s not just that God exists, but that he cares for us. He cares for us in the big things and in the small things, and that we are his beloved daughters and sons. I’m talking about having that kind of confidence in God that is deep, that penetrates all of who we are, that confidence that gets integrated throughout all of us mind, heart, soul, body, that kind of confidence, deep. And it has to be abiding. What do we mean by abiding? That means our confidence in God has to persist. It has to remain with us. It has to remain in us in times of trouble. There has to be a constancy, a permanence to our confidence in God. It’s not just with us one moment and gone the next. This is the key idea. If you have the deep, abiding confidence in God and His providential love for you specifically, you will be resilient. Key idea, one more time. If you have the deep, abiding confidence in God in His providential love for you specifically, you will be resilient. Okay, let’s flesh that out a bit. If you are sheltering under the wing of a God like that, a God who loves you, cherishes you, delights in you, who can harm you? Who can separate you from him?

[00:13:45] What else even matters? What could ever take your peace away? What could cause you to fall and not get back up? Now, admittedly, that level of confidence is rare. It’s a quality of sanctity, of holiness. It flows from and is a result of a deep mutual relationship with God as He really is. And lest you be tempted to believe that I am somehow speaking down to you from some lofty pinnacle of human experience, lest you believe that somehow I have risen up to some perfect, deep, abiding confidence in God, let me tell you, it isn’t so. Right. This is a process. It’s a process for you. It’s also a process for me. I lose my confidence in God sometimes. It’s not always abiding, and my confidence in God is not as deep as it could be. I have zones of me, parts of me that do not yet hold on to that confidence in God. All right. So let’s review. We want to have a Catholic resilience, the capacity to accept and embrace adversity, trials, sufferings, our crosses as gifts from God to transform us, to make us holy, and ultimately to bring us to heaven, to beatific vision, to looking at God face to face for all eternity. We want the resilience that’s going to help us get there. Where does it flow from? It flows from a deep, abiding confidence in God, especially in his providential love and care for me, particularly me specifically.

[00:15:24] So you might ask, Dr. Peter, from a psychological perspective, what gets in the way of that deep, abiding confidence in God? What psychological factors keep us from having that confidence that we so need in order to be resilient Catholics? Now, that is a great question. Now, remember, that question focuses on the psychological factors that prevent us, the psychological factors that hinder us from a deep, abiding confidence in God. There are other factors that I’m not going to spend as much time on in these episodes. For example, there are spiritual factors that get in the way of us having that deep, abiding confidence in God. There are moral factors, right? Moral issues that come up, and I claim no special qualifications to discuss those matters spiritual matters, moral matters. I’m not a priest. I’m not a confessor. I’m not a moral theologian. I’m a psychologist. So I am focusing on the psychological aspects in these podcasts and how they relate to the spiritual realm. The main psychological reason why we do not have that deep, abiding confidence in God is because we do not know him as he truly is. The main reason, the main psychological reason why we don’t have that deep, abiding confidence in God is because we don’t understand God as He truly is. We misunderstand him. We don’t get him. We have all kinds of assumptions about him that are false. And these false assumptions about God are generated from how we misconstrue our experiences.

[00:17:14] The ways we misunderstand God psychologically stem from the misinterpretations of our experiences. Now I need to introduce two key ideas, two new definitions. The distinction that I’m about to make is a really foundational. It’s really important. But don’t worry if you don’t get this right away. We’re going to be coming back to these two definitions over and over again. We’re going to come back to these two ideas over and over again in the spiral learning. Here is a key idea. And definition time with Dr. Peter. God concept. God concept. All right. Our God concept is what we profess about God. It’s our intellectual understanding of God. It’s what we’ve been taught about God. It’s what we believe in our heart of hearts. It’s what we’ve chosen to hold as true. And for us Orthodox practicing Catholics, it is reflected in the Nicene Creed. It is expanded in the Catechism. It is the whole of the Catholic teaching about the nature of God that is our God concept, right? It’s intellectual. It’s conceptual. It’s embraced willingly. It’s chosen. It’s affirmed as true by our core, by our heart of hearts. God concept. Let’s contrast that God concept with another key idea. Definition time once more with Dr. Peter. This time, God image. God image. God image is the emotional and subjective experience of God. It’s what we feel in our bones in a given moment.

[00:19:32] How we feel God to be in the moment. And it may or may not correspond to who God really is, but it is our gut sense. It’s our intuition. It’s what our experience tells us about God. These God images can be radically different than our God concept. And God images are heavily influenced by psychological factors. They’re actually heavily influenced by our relational history, particularly with our parents. They’re initially formed out of the relationship with our caregivers. They’re particularly impacted by the types of attachment styles we’ve developed. They’re also impacted by our temperaments. Okay, that’s the God image. God image is the emotional, subjective experience of God. It’s what we draw, what we construe from our experiences, and how we layer that onto God. God concept, that’s different. That’s our intellectual understanding of God. That is what we hold to be true. That’s what we’re committed to. That’s what we profess to believe. All right. Now, we often suppress God images and force them into the unconscious because we’re frightened of them or because we’re ashamed of them. We don’t want to own them. We don’t want to think to ourselves that we actually believe that God is like this, whatever our negative God image is. And I will say that so much of my practice, so much of the work that I do professionally as a psychologist with orthodox practicing Catholics is around problematic God images. It’s about these images of God that do not reflect who God really is.

[00:21:25] You might feel that God is distant and disengaged, or maybe that God is disgusted with you, or that he wants to punish you, or even that he’s out to get you. Some may feel in their bones that God is not very powerful, or that he’s not very wise, or that he’s not very good, or that he’s not very aware of what’s going on in the world. That last one’s a critical one for me, not aware of what’s going on in the world, a God image where God is just not connected to what’s going on in the world. And so we have a new little segment that’s going to come up from time to time in these podcast episodes, and it’s called sharing time. All right. Sharing time is when I get a little more personal about my experience. All right. So I thought I’d share with you one of my problematic God images, what sometimes I feel in my bones about God in this very first segment of sharing time with Dr. Peter. All right, so when I go down the rabbit hole of internet bloggers on the Catholic Church, and I read all about the scandals and the cover ups and the general incompetence and malice and criminal behavior of church leaders, or when I get all wrapped up in how bishops have not really pursued creative solutions to provide us with the sacraments during the lockdowns.

[00:22:52] You know, confession, the Eucharist. When I indulge in very critical thoughts about these bishops, when I ponder how they seem so much more concerned about my body than my soul, or maybe more concerned about their bodies than my soul, when I lose my recollection, when I lose my resilience, when I lose my confidence in God, I have parts of me that want to scream at God this: “why isn’t anyone minding the store, God? Why are there no consequences for the evil-doers and the incompetent ones in church leadership? Where, in Hades, are you God?” Except I don’t say Hades, right? This is a clean, family oriented podcast, don’t you know? So we’re keeping it clean here. Now, I know that this image of God isn’t true, that God is somehow unaware of what’s going on or just doesn’t care. I don’t endorse that image. I don’t embrace it. I don’t profess it. It’s not what I believe about God in my heart of hearts. It’s not my God concept, but it is a God image that rears its ugly head from time to time for me. When I am in that place, man, it feels that way though. It feels like God is not minding the store. And when I get into that rabbit hole, I can become very unfair and unjust in my thinking about church leaders and very unfair towards bishops in those moments. All right, now you know what I’m talking about? That resonate with you at all?

[00:24:27] How God can seem in your bones when you’re in your dark moments. Maybe, and maybe it’s more than that. Maybe it’s a lot of the time, not to fit. You know what I’m talking about? How God can seem in your bones, in your dark moments? Or maybe it’s more than just in your dark moments. Maybe it’s a lot of the time that God does not fit the loving, caring, compassionate image that we receive from Scripture or from tradition. Now, near the end of this podcast, we’ll do a little exercise and I’ll help you get in touch with your with one of your God images. So stay tuned for that. It’ll come up at the end. We’re going to spiral back. All right, we’re going to spiral back. We have the God concept. And that is what we know to be true about God conceptually, intellectually, it’s what we profess. For us Orthodox Catholics, it’s summarized in the Nicene Creed, expanded in the Catechism. And then we also have the God image, right? God images are how we feel God to be in our bones in the moment, our gut sense of God. It’s driven by a lot of emotion, driven by passion. It’s what our intuition tells us. That’s the distinction, right? God image, God concept. All right. Let’s just take one more example to really drive it home. All right. So we have an orthodox, faithful Catholic woman who is experiencing all kinds of fear about contracting the coronavirus, right? She’s high risk.

[00:26:00] Intellectually, she knows herself to be in a state of grace. She wants to experience the kingdom of God. She wants to go to heaven. She’s 68 years old. She’s had a great life. She’s got some health issues. Intellectually, she feels ready to die. But man, there’s a lot of fear. She’s really struggling because she believes in her God concept that our Lord is the good Shepherd, right? I am the good Shepherd. Psalm 23. “The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. In verdant pastures he leadeth me.” Right. All the admonitions to fear not. But there is fear about death. Now, going back all the way to episode one of this podcast, we talked about how death, there’s a natural fear of death, right? But, you know, there’s something in her God concept that’s getting in the way here where she can’t just embrace God. She wants to cling to what she knows, and she realizes that maybe she doesn’t trust him as much in her bones as she thought she did. Right. Maybe there’s doubts that start creeping in about whether he really understands what she’s going through. Why did he even allow this to happen? Right. So there you can kind of see the difference between the God concept and the God image. All right.

[00:27:29] I want to introduce you to one more key idea in this episode. This is it. This is the key idea. As Catholics, it is our God images that contribute so much to our lack of confidence in God. We have problematic God images. These problematic God images get activated and they affect us heavily. Our negative gut images compromise our capacity for childlike trust in God. So we either lose it or we can’t grow in trust. And when we are compromised in that deep and abiding confidence in God, we lose our resilience. See the causal chain here? Bad God images lead to a lack of confidence in God, which leads to a loss of resilience. Boom! There it is. That’s where I wanted us to get to today. Now let’s solidify this. Let’s drive it home. How can we make these concepts stick with us? Hmm. Let’s think about that. How can we make these concepts stick with us? Ah! An idea. Let’s have a story. Let’s have a story together. Let’s have an old story. Let’s have an old one, but not a very good one. It’s story time with Dr. Peter. You might remember this one. Now the serpent, ah, the serpent, is very subtle. More subtle than any of the other creatures. More subtle than any of the other creatures that the Lord God had made. And the serpent slithered up to the woman and said, “Did God say, you shall not eat of any tree of the garden?” And the woman, she responded, she said to the serpent, “No, no, we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden. It’s only that God said, you shall not eat the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden.

[00:29:43] Neither shall you touch it, or you’ll die.” But the serpent, the serpent, this is what he said to the woman. “No, no, you won’t die. For God knows that when you eat of it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So the woman looked, right. She saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes. She saw that the tree was to be desired to make one wise. She took some of the fruit, and she ate it. And she also gave some to her husband, who, yeah, also ate it. All right. The eyes of both of them were open. They knew that they were naked and all hell broke loose on the, oop, and all Hades broke loose in the world. Okay. What’s going on here? Satan really wanted to work on the God images of Adam and Eve. He wanted to corrupt the way that they understood God. He wanted to change their feelings about God. He wanted to set their hearts against God. How does he do it? What’s his approach? Remember, Saint Thomas Aquinas tells us that grace perfects nature. Grace doesn’t destroy nature. It perfects nature. Right. It works with nature. Satan also focuses on our human natures. Satan wants to corrupt our nature. He wants to work on a human natural level.

[00:31:46] He wants to sow seeds of doubt about God’s benevolence. He wants to undermine the knowledge about how God wills what is best for us. Remember last episode we talked about the five attachment related tasks that we have with God? And we’re going to review that over and over again. So if you don’t remember, that’s fine. But the fifth of the five attachment related tasks is knowing at a deep level that God wills what is best for you, not just what’s good for you, but what’s best for you. And that was the attachment-related task that Satan was trying to undermine. He wanted to convey to Adam and Eve that God was depriving them of a good. That God was selfishly keeping from them this fruit that would make them like him, like gods. And so what happened is that this emotional, intuitive God image stuff started to well up. It wasn’t sinful yet. The sin hadn’t been committed, but they were listening to it. They were listening to this problematic God image that Satan was fostering by playing on their emotions, by playing on their desires, by playing on their impulsiveness, by playing on all these psychological factors. This wasn’t just happening in the spiritual realm, clearly, spiritual things going on, absolutely. I’m not focusing on those because remember, I’m a psychologist. I’m not a priest. I’m not a moral theologian. I’m not a spiritual director. I’m looking at what’s going on psychologically.

[00:33:32] What is he drawing their attention to? How is he reframing this whole situation? How is he leading them? He’s capitalizing on psychological factors and he’s going after their God images, right? So that those God images will well up and that they’ll embrace them as true and turn them into their God concept. All right. That’s what Satan does. He capitalizes on our problematic God images. He exacerbates them. He wants us to endorse them, and he wants us to succumb to them so that we will lose our deep and abiding confidence in God, which happened to Adam and Eve, right? They lost their confidence in God and that leads to our resilience collapsing. That’s what happened to Adam and Eve. Resilience collapsed. And if he can get us far enough down that road, we will be lost. So the stakes are high in this contest, in these battles that we have with powers and principalities. And I want to reassure you that we’re going to dive much deeper into temptation and human imperfections and resilience in future episodes. We’re going to learn how to heal our God images. I’m going to give you all the conceptual things you need for that in these podcast episodes, and there’s going to be a whole load of experiential learning in the Resilient Catholics Carpe Diem community that we’ll do in the small group work that we do in that community. So there’s so much in store for you in these upcoming episodes.

[00:35:10] There’s so much in store for you in the community. But now, right now, I want to give you a taste of the kinds of things that we do in the community. I’m going to invite you to do an exercise, and if you feel like doing this, great, you know, you don’t have to. This is a thing to do actually when you’ve got a little time and space. But it’s really to reflect on how you feel God to be when you are in your dark place. How you construe God in those moments when you are in that dark place, when you are not doing well spiritually. What kinds of distortions come in? What kinds of disorder comes into your God image? How do you misconstrue God? How do you blame God? How do you condemn God or judge God negatively? Right? I shared with you mine, which was to look at God as not minding the store. That’s one of mine. We have many of these. And I’m going to invite you to just take some time during the next week to really sit down with pencil and paper and write out, accept that this is the kind of place that you go to. That doesn’t mean we endorse it. It doesn’t mean that we’re, you know, somehow justifying it or rationalizing that it’s true or anything like that. We need to know the places that we go so that we can create a plan to resist it so that we don’t fall into temptations, especially around the nature of God.

[00:36:54] So here’s what I want you to do. If you are in the Resilient Catholics Carpe Diem community, or if you join it, I want you to go into the discussion boards there. There’s a discussion board for this episode on God images and just share with the community if you want to. Remember, it’s private, right? You have to join the community to be there. Share what you got there. Alternatively, if you’re not in the community, email it to me. I’m curious about what you find out about your God image. You can email me at crisis@soulsandhearts.com, or leave me a voicemail, (317) 567-9594. There’s a warning here, though. Sometimes when people call, I pick up. You might wind up talking to me. So you can leave me a voicemail. (317) 567-9594. Or firing off an email, crisis@soulsandhearts.com. Let me know what you come up with about your God image. Very simple exercise. I’m also going to ask you to discern about making this podcast a regular part of your week. Not all are called to it. This podcast isn’t for everybody, but it is really designed as a whole program. So can you commit to 30 minutes a week to listen, or maybe 45, to listen to the podcast and five minutes per day to do some of the exercises, to work on your human formation. Can you do that? Would that be something that you’re called to do? Maybe it means just getting this podcast set up on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify or some other podcast platform to remind you that it comes out every Monday morning, 5:00 AM Eastern time.

[00:38:32] It’s as regular as clockwork. I want to be consistent. I want you to know that you can rely on me to provide you a podcast episode every week. I am super excited about the podcast that comes out on July 6th. That’s going to be the next episode, episode 23. I am going to be in rare form. I’m going to tell you a long story in which we’re going to pull together all of this conceptual work that we’ve been doing in this episode, in the last episode. It’s gonna be great. I’m really excited. Also, I want to let you know that we had our first organizational meeting for the RCC community on June 27th. That’s last Saturday. And it was invigorating. We are coming together in the community. The video from that meeting, along with the ideas and the sharing from that meeting, those are going to be up in the RCCD exclusive content area, along with the videos from the grief workshop and the stress management workshop. I’m going to keep that video of our organizational meeting up until July 8th. That’s for people in the community to take a look at it, catch up with what we were doing.

[00:39:34] If you couldn’t make the meeting last Saturday. And here’s the next big thing. Friday, July 10th, 7:30 p.m. to 8:45 p.m. Eastern Time. I’m going to host a Zoom meeting for RCCD community members to just hang out and discuss together amongst ourselves this podcast episode and the next one, episodes 22 and 23. So put that on your calendars. Register in the Zoom meeting section of the RCCD community discussion boards. It’s going to be great. Friday, July 10th, 7:30 p.m. to 8:45 p.m. Eastern Time. Okay. Okay. And here’s the next big thing. Friday, July 10th, 7:30 p.m. to 8:45 p.m. Eastern Time, I am hosting a Zoom meeting for RCCD community members to hang out and discuss this podcast episode and the next one, episodes 22 and 23. So put that on your calendars. Register in the Zoom meeting section of the RCC Community Discussion boards. It’s going to be great. Friday, July 10th, 7:30 p.m. to 8:45 p.m. Eastern Time. We’re going to get together. We’re going to hang out. We’re getting to know each other. And the last thing, pray for me. Pray for me. Pray for this podcast. Pray for our community members. I am praying for you as well. And with that, it’s a wrap. We’ll invoke our patroness and our patron. Our Lady, our Mother, Undoer of Knots, pray for us. Saint John the Baptist, pray for us.